Conversations with common HERETICS 

In this part of the website, I will attempt to collect and compile conversations I have hard with common heretics for the edification of the church. For the purpose of helping you see what is wrong with these doctrines, and how to defend the truth. These will be real conversations, though names will be changed, and spelling corrections will be made.  I will be going undercover in some of these emails, for the purpose of showing how these people talk with unbelievers. 

Conversation with GMO ("Gospel" Media outreach)

First Email:


GMO:
Thank you for taking the time to contact us. You will receive a reply from one of our caring volunteers who will pray for you, answer any questions and provide suggestions on ways to get closer to God.

The Bible tells us "If we draw near to God, He will draw near to us" (James 4:8). You can start growing in your relationship with God right now. Simply go to http://www.godlife.com/look-to-jesus/introduction to learn more about what it means to be a Christian.

You can read or hear the Bible online at http://downloadbible.godlife.com/
And we invite you to join us by liking us at http://www.facebook.com/GodLifePage.

NOTE: Please do not respond to this message. One of our volunteers will email you shortly.


Email 2:

GMO:
Dear Kaison , My name is ________. I am so glad you have accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior! The Bible tells us in Ephesians 2:8-9 that "It is by grace (God's gift) we have been saved and not by works (human effort)." Please go to Godlife.com/learn to learn more about what it means to be a Christian. If you have a Bible, I encourage you to begin reading the Gospel of John in the New Testament. Romans 10:9 says, "If you confess with your mouth Jesus as LOrd and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you shall be saved."† Is that what you have done?† If so the Bible says that you are now saved. I am sure you will have some questions about what you are reading in the Bible, or from our websites. I will be glad to answer your questions and help you know God better. See www.Godlife.com/learn "Lord Jesus, thank you for Kaison . I know that you Kaison love and want what is best for him. Continue to help Kaison grow in his knowledge of you and allow his to experience your love and perfect plan for his life. In Jesus name I pray. Amen" God bless you, _______
Global Media Outreach volunteer - just a man who loves Jesus


Kaison:
Yah, I decided to say that Jesus is Lord over me. I believe Jesus is real because I felt something when i read that website. I just clicked and prayed, and now I believe Jesus is real. I decided, but is that not enough? What else do I have to do? Thanks for your help, i look forward to our conversation.

Email 3:

GMO:
Dear Kaison,

God gives condition and promise verses so we can know that we are saved. One of those is Romans 10:9 "If you confess with you mouth Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead you shall be saved>" Is that what you have done? If so then you can know that now you are saved. What is next? Next is learning and growing and serving HIm as you deepen your relationship. 
www.godlife.com/en/new-believers is full of great resources for Christians at every stage of growth. If you have recently decided to follow Christ, you may want to start with www.godlife.com/en/about-christianity . 

Going to church or Bible study regularly will be a big help in fellowship, worship, and growth in knowledge of the Lord. Read a passage from the Bible daily. You can read online at youversion.com Be sure to pray. 

I will be glad to answer your questions and help you take the next steps to becoming a mature believer. I also look forward to knowing how I can pray for you. I pray the Lord will meet your needs physically, spiritually and emotionally and that more of your family and friends will come to know Jesus also. Let them know about the Godlife.com websites too. 


Kaison:
I just read mathew chapter 7, and it says if I don't do the will of the father I will be cut down and thrown into the fire, thats hell right? I decided to follow Jesus, but I am not a very good person, I made one decision, do i need to keep making right decisions to be christian? I confessed with my mouth, but how much do i need to believe with my heart? What do I believe with my heart? 

Email: 4:

GMO:
I just read mathew chapter 7, and it says if I don't do the will of the
father I will be cut down and thrown into the fire, thats hell right? Yes, that is hell, but that is for the unbeliever not you. A good article on Matthew 7 is at http://www.gotquestions.org/Matthew-7-21-23.html

I decided to follow Jesus, but I am not a very good person, I made one
decision, do i need to keep making right decisions to be christian? The Holy Spirit helps us make right choices and live the Christian life, it is not self effort. 

I confessed with my mouth, but how much do i need to believe with my heart?
What do I believe with my heart?
You believe Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, who died on the cross and came alive again for your sins. 

Kaison:
The people Matthew chapter 7 is talking about is not people who confess to be non-believers, but false believers. I don't want to be a false believer, so i need to do the will of the father right? Or is it that if I believe I will do the will of the father? Like fruit? 
So i have to decide to be a christian all the time (and the spirit will help me, not make me) or else i will loose my salvation right? 

I believe Jesus died on the cross and came alive again for my sins, I believe he was the son of God too. I believe Jesus died to forgive me of all my sins no matter what I do, so I can keep on sinning right? 

Email 5:

GMO:
Romans 6 answer the question of continuing to sin. "What shall I say then shall I continue in sin the grace may abound? God forbid. How shall I who am dead to sin continue to live any longer there in." God doesn't want us to sin and will help us not to but if we do sin, we confess it to Him not to be saved again because theat is eternal to restore our fellowship. I John 1 :9 If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" Much like with your own Dad, if do something bad to him, you will still be his son, but to restore your fellowship you need to confess and apologize. 

Kaison:
So being a christian, means being dead to sin, and believing? Then I guess real faith has an appearance, what does it look like? How can I be sure I believe? My job is what most people would call, in the very least scary, I know its wrong, but I love to do it, and its my job, how i make my money, why should I quit if I am forgiven? But if believing means I am dead to sin, I am not sure I believe, because I just want forgiveness. my girlfriend passed away, and I want to see her again. 

Why did you change the subject? Can you answer my questions about Mathew 7? 

1) I don't want to be a false believer, so i need to do the will of the father right? 
2) Or is it that if I believe I will do the will of the father? Like fruit? 
3) So i have to decide to be a christian all the time (and the spirit will help me, not make me) or else i will loose my salvation right? 
4) I believe he was the son of God too. I believe Jesus died to forgive me of all my sins no matter what I do, so I can keep on sinning right? (I know I shouldn't, but can I?)

Email 6:


GMO:
So being a christian, means being dead to sin, and believing? Yes, that is our position in Christ.
Then I guess real faith has an appearance, what does it look like? The question of faith alone or faith plus works is made difficult by some hard-to-reconcile Bible passages. Compare Romans 3:28, 5:1 and Galatians 3:24 with James 2:24. Some see a difference between Paul (salvation is by faith alone) and James (salvation is by faith plus works). Paul dogmatically says that justification is by faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9), while James appears to be saying that justification is by faith plus works. This apparent problem is answered by examining what exactly James is talking about. James is refuting the belief that a person can have faith without producing any good works (James 2:17-18). James is emphasizing the point that genuine faith in Christ will produce a changed life and good works (James 2:20-26). James is not saying that justification is by faith plus works, but rather that a person who is truly justified by faith will have good works in his/her life. If a person claims to be a believer, but has no good works in his/her life, then he/she likely does not have genuine faith in Christ (James 2:14, 17, 20, 26).

Paul says the same thing in his writings. The good fruit believers should have in their lives is listed in Galatians 5:22-23. Immediately after telling us that we are saved by faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8-9), Paul informs us that we were created to do good works (Ephesians 2:10). Paul expects just as much of a changed life as James does: “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come” (2 Corinthians 5:17). James and Paul do not disagree in their teaching regarding salvation. They approach the same subject from different perspectives. Paul simply emphasized that justification is by faith alone while James put emphasis on the fact that genuine faith in Christ produces good works.

How can I be sure I believe? If you didn't believe you wouldn't be asking the question. God will give you even more faith as you mature in your relationship with Him. 

My job is what most people would call, in the very least scary, I
know its wrong, but I love to do it, and its my job, how i make my money,
why should I quit if I am forgiven? The Bible says, "whatever you do, do your work heartily as unto the Lord not unto men" So if your work does not please the Lord, then you should stop. 

But if believing means I am dead to sin, I am not sure I believe, because I just want forgiveness. my
girlfriend passed away, and I want to see her again.
The word "forgive" means to wipe the slate clean, to pardon, to cancel a debt. When we wrong someone, we seek their forgiveness in order for the relationship to be restored. Forgiveness is not granted because a person deserves to be forgiven. No one deserves to be forgiven. Forgiveness is an act of love, mercy, and grace. Forgiveness is a decision to not hold something against another person, despite what they have done to you.

The Bible tells us that we are all in need of forgiveness from God. We have all committed sin. Ecclesiastes 7:20 proclaims, "There is not a righteous man on earth who does what is right and never sins." First John 1:8 says, "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." All sin is ultimately an act of rebellion against God (Psalm 51:4). As a result, we desperately need God’s forgiveness. If our sins are not forgiven, we will spend eternity suffering the consequences of our sins (Matthew 25:46; John 3:36).

Forgiveness – How do I get it?

Thankfully, God is loving and merciful – eager to forgive us of our sins! 2 Peter 3:9 tells us, "…He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." God desires to forgive us, so He provided for our forgiveness.

The only just penalty for our sins is death. The first half of Romans 6:23 declares, "For the wages of sin is death…" Eternal death is what we have earned for our sins. God, in His perfect plan, became a human being – Jesus Christ (John 1:1,14). Jesus died on the cross, taking the penalty that we deserve – death. Second Corinthians 5:21 teaches us, "God made Him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God." Jesus died on the cross, taking the punishment that we deserve! As God, Jesus' death provided forgiveness for the sins of the entire world. 1 John 2:2 proclaims, "He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." Jesus rose from the dead, proclaiming His victory over sin and death (1 Corinthians 15:1-28). Praise God, through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, the second half of Romans 6:23 is true, "…but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Why did you change the subject? Can you answer my questions about Mathew 7?

1) I don't want to be a false believer, so i need to do the will of the
father right? Yes
2) Or is it that if I believe I will do the will of the father? Like fruit? Yes
3) So i have to decide to be a christian all the time (and the spirit will
help me, not make me) or else i will loose my salvation right? No you will not lose your salvation, it is eternally secure. When people come to know Christ as their Savior, they are brought into a relationship with God that guarantees their eternal security. Jude 24 declares, "To Him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy." God's power is able to keep the believer from falling. It is up to Him, not us, to present us before His glorious presence. Our eternal security is a result of God keeping us, not us maintaining our own salvation.

The Lord Jesus Christ proclaimed, "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand" (John 10:28-29b). Both Jesus and the Father have us firmly grasped in their hand. Who could possibly separate us from the grip of both the Father and the Son?

Ephesians 4:30 tells us that believers are "sealed for the day of redemption." If believers did not have eternal security, the sealing could not truly be unto the day of redemption, but only to the day of sinning, apostasy, or disbelief. John 3:15-16 tells us that whoever believes in Jesus Christ will "have eternal life." If a person were to be promised eternal life, but then have it taken away, it was never "eternal" to begin with. If eternal security is not true, the promises of eternal life in the Bible would be in error.

The most powerful argument for eternal security is Romans 8:38-39, "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Our eternal security is based on God's love for those whom He has redeemed. Our eternal security is purchased by Christ, promised by the Father, and sealed by the Holy Spirit.
4) I believe he was the son of God too. I believe Jesus died to forgive me
of all my sins no matter what I do, so I can keep on sinning right? (I know
I shouldn't, but can I?) "The old has passed away, behold all things are become new" You are now a new creation in Christ and in the sin nature in you is dead. Romans 7 however says that we struggle with our flesh, so that thing we want to do we don't do and things that we don't want to do we do. But again, "Thanks be to God who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ:"

Kaison:

You said:  "a person who is truly justified by faith will have good works in his/her life." and  "If you didn't believe you wouldn't be asking the question."

I don't have good works, and I don't want to have good works, I want to continue living my life like I want, so by your first statement I am not saved, but by your second statement I am. I am confused. I can not quite this job of mine, its a big business, and they will kill me if i quit, and I don't want to quit anyway, its a good job, and the hours are good, moneys good too. 

“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come” , is this the born again thing? This never happened to me, does it need to? I decided to believe in Jesus, but God never "remade" me. 

"whatever you do, do your work heartily as unto the Lord not unto men", does this mean I can continue my job, if I do it for God? I should stop, but I don't have to right?

I don't think you understand about my girlfriend, she died in a shooting accident and I want to see her in heaven. Thats why I prayed the prayer. 

"…He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." So what does repentance mean? Is that what I did when I prayed the prayer? 

So if i don't do the will of God, then I am a false believer, then when I prayed the prayer I never believed, I don't know why you are so sure I believe. 

God's power is able to keep the believer from falling., so that means I am not a believer, since I don't live up there on the clouds, and have to maintain my "sinner" job, like that, i guess i am always falling. haha.

Our eternal security is a result of God keeping us, not us maintaining our own salvation., then i don't think God chose me, to make me a "new creation" so i could have faith, and that stuff, because i just read a prayer off a website, and it said i was forgiven, and you did too, but God is not keeping me holy, cause i never been born again right? 

 If a person were to be promised eternal life, but then have it taken away, it was never "eternal" to begin with., so that means when the website offered me forgiveness and you too, then it was taken away by the realization that I must be born again, then it was never eternal life to begin with. Wow, if thats true, i am sure there are lots of people out there who pray the prayer, and don't have eternal life. That means the website is wrong then right? Whats this some kind of false teaching? You confuse me.

"The old has passed away, behold all things are become new" You are now a new creation in Christ and in the sin nature in you is dead., what makes you so sure? 

EMail 7:

GMO:

You said: "a person who is truly justified by faith will have good works in his/her life." and "If you didn't believe you wouldn't be asking the question." God asks that we believe in Him, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit and believe what Jesus did for us on the cross dying for our sin and coming alive again. Only you and God know whether you truly believe that or not. If you do believe then you can claim the promises such as there will be good works in your life and there will evidence of the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23) love, patience, kindness, gentleness, etc. 

I don't have good works, and I don't want to have good works, I want to continue living my life like I want, so by your first statement I am not saved, but by your second statement I am. I am confused. I can not quite this job of mine, its a big business, and they will kill me if i quit, and I don't want to quit anyway, its a good job, and the hours are good, moneys good too. Again, if you believe God will convict you about things He wants to change in your life. Our enemy Satan doesn't want you to believe or to allow Jesus to be the Lord (boss) of your life, don't let Satan win. 

*“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come”* , is this the born again thing? This never happened to me, does it need to? I decided to believe in Jesus, but God never "remade" me. The Bible says that He did make you new if you believe. 

"whatever you do, do your work heartily as unto the Lord not unto men", does this mean I can continue my job, if I do it for God? I should stop, but I don't have to right? Salvation is not just saying a prayer but accepting the truth about God by faith and committing to love and follow Him. We serve HIm out of gratitude, He loved us so much he provided a way for us to have salvation, eternal life and heaven.

I don't think you understand about my girlfriend, she died in a shooting accident and I want to see her in heaven. Thats why I prayed the prayer. That is an awful thing that has happened I am sad about your loss but glad that your girlfriend was a Christian believer and you want to see her again in heaven. That is possible but under God's terms not yours. You have to be willing to repent and follow Him, not just pray a prayer. 

"…He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." So what does repentance mean? Is that what I did when I prayed the prayer? Repentance means being sorry for your old sinful way of life turning from it to God. 

So if i don't do the will of God, then I am a false believer, then when I prayed the prayer I never believed, I don't know why you are so sure I believe. Only you know if you believe or not but if God was not working in your heart bringing you to himself I don't think you'd write me everyday with questions, you wouldn't care. It may have started with a desire to see your girlfriend again but you have began to study the Bible and ask questions seeking to know God. 

God's power is able to keep the believer from falling., so that means I am not a believer, since I don't live up there on the clouds, and have to maintain my "sinner" job, like that, i guess i am always falling. haha.

Our eternal security is a result of God keeping us, not us maintaining our own salvation., then i don't think God chose me, to make me a "new creation" so i could have faith, and that stuff, because i just read a prayer off a website, and it said i was forgiven, and you did too, but God is not keeping me holy, cause i never been born again right?

Romans 10:9 says "if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead you shall be saved." That is God's condition and promise. Did you confess with your mouth? Did you believe in your heart? If so you have God's promise you are saved. If not, then you are not saved. 

If a person were to be promised eternal life, but then have it taken away, it was never "eternal" to begin with., so that means when the website offered me forgiveness and you too, then it was taken away by the realization that I must be born again, then it was never eternal life to begin with. Wow, if thats true, i am sure there are lots of people out there who pray the prayer, and don't have eternal life. That means the website is wrong then right? Whats this some kind of false teaching? You
confuse me.
It iw eternal life once you start trusting and obeying God through faith in Jesus.  "The old has passed away, behold all things are become new" You are now a new creation in Christ and in the sin nature in you is dead., what makes you so sure? That's what the Bible says. "But as many as received Him to them gave He power to become sons of God, even to those that believe on His name." 1What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?" The word baptize here doesn't mean water baptism it means to be immersed in Christ.

Kaison:

 Only you and God know whether you truly believe that or not.

But in Mathew 7 we see that many will say "Lord Lord" but they don't do the will of the father, so they will be cut down. (cause they never believed) which means they thought they believed, but didn't. So how to I know I am not one of them, they even had the ability to prophecy!

don't let Satan win. 

So now its up to me to fight Satan? I don't think I can win if I am not born again, because I understand being born again as a life change brought on by God not me, cause if its by me, then I am saved by works, so i am pretty sure Satan wins this one, or God is going to have to come fight for me, cause first of all, i don't want to fight Satan, i don't have anything against him, and I don't have a New Spirit yet, so I can't win anyway. 

 I decided to believe in Jesus, but God
never "remade" me. The Bible says that He did make you new if you believe. 

The bible says in one place "even the demons believe" isn't that right? And we already talked about the dead faith that James talks about. So is it still up to me to determine whether or not I believe? Is believing a decision? Is being remade something I do? Or is it something I decide? 

 Salvation is not just saying a prayer but accepting the truth about God by faith and committing to love and follow Him.


So someone who is not willing, God will not save them? Its up to my will to accept, and my effort to follow, thats how this salvation thing begins? It begins with me right? 

Repentance means being sorry for your old sinful way of life turning from it to God. 

So repentance means doing good works, and not doing bad things anymore. Well shoot. 

Only you know if you believe or not but if God was not working in your heart bringing you to himself I don't think you'd write me everyday with questions, you wouldn't care.


What about the pharisees? What about cults, and false believers that we mentioned? Do they not think they are saved? Do they not think that they believe? And I told you, I thought I believed, but my "fruit" isn't up to par because I don't want to change, which I think means God hasn't changed me right? 

It may have started with a desire to see your girlfriend again but you have began to study the Bible and ask questions seeking to know God. 

Let me assure you, I just had a purely all-play relationship with my girlfriend, if you know what I mean, so I don't think my desire to see her again is much more than a selfish one, at least in God's eyes, but I miss her. I am seeking heaven, i never said I wanted to know God. 

Our eternal security is a result of God keeping us, not us maintaining our own salvation


You say that, but I don't think you really believe that by what you wrote above. And besides, God has to begin it first right? 

Did you confess with your mouth? Did you believe in your heart? If so you have God's promise you are saved.


Believe what? I don't want to be like all the other false believers who say they believe? 

It iw eternal life once you start trusting and obeying God through faith in Jesus. "The old has passed away, behold all things are become new" 


So my salvation begins by me deciding to trust, and working to obey, and that makes the old go away and new things come? I kind of God the feeling that the new birth thing was started by God not me. Like John 1:13. 

what makes you so sure? That's what the Bible says. "But as many as received Him to them gave He power to become sons of God, even to those that believe on His name." 


I am being way more honest with you than most people would, I am starting to think this Christianity thing is just religion based on psychology. You are still sure that I believe? hmmm, I am flattered, but I don't think we can depend on my words. 

More on the way ;)